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Aluminum Refrigerant Piping?

Discussion in 'Commercial' started by tuna, Oct 24, 2012.

  1. tuna

    tuna New Member

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    2,223
    I went to a Daiken Class today for their VRV systems. These are their systems that have one large outdoor unit and 15 or so small indoor units. We have just finished installing six of them and they are being started up right now.

    Anyhow, as part of the class they discussed using aluminum tubing instead of copper. Daiken has approved using aluminum tubing on their systems. There was a very seasoned guy that talked about the advantages and the fact that he was sold on it made an impression on me.

    Here is the system they used for joints.

    http://www.reflok.com/reflok-aluminium-vs-copper-video.php

    This is probably going to be the norm soon.

    Edit: I consider 10 years or so soon.
  2. Tap

    Tap HoWdY!

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    7,802
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    Coming to a town near you!
    I didn't watch your video but ive been using 6061 T6 and many other materials for years
  3. Swampfox

    Swampfox Trailer Trash

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    Hell Hole Swamp
    I think I could do the copper faster than that guy did the aluminum bend
  4. crackertech

    crackertech assholiness

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    59,969
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    Fl/IN

    We bend copper that size everyday.
  5. flange

    flange I can't make u do it, I can only make u wish u had

    didnt one manufacturer used to use it in condenser, and then braze copper stubs to the ends for connecting to field piping, blue oval I think. cost is a factor, especially when buying diakin, the highest priced units out there.
  6. ub2slo

    ub2slo tryin to cool hell

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    Trane bushy coil
  7. jeepman1

    jeepman1 chief idiot herder -2 +1

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    haha. thats funny, i went to a similar/same class 2 months ago. the instructor was asked about it but he claimed he didnt know anything about it and that daikin would never ok aluminum..... anyway the guy that asked the question sure seemed to think he had heard they were going to be using aluminum in the future.
  8. Bustawrench

    Bustawrench I am the Walrus.

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    9,237
    Alum coils becomming standard on Lennox and Carrier has been using them for a while.

    If they leak, new coil.........salt air and coil cleaners eat them, new coil.........charge is now critical to within a few ounces or they blast off on head pressure in a matter of seconds..........on carrier, if the flanged connections loosen up, all the frezon leaks out and you're screwed unless you have new gaskets.

    Gonna be some big changes coming in the next few years, fellas............not all of them good............but they are coming.
  9. Catpower

    Catpower The Crowd Pleaser

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    16,345
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    in the Cabana

    No shit, and I would fire the idiot working the copper, what a putz
  10. Catpower

    Catpower The Crowd Pleaser

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    in the Cabana
    They have tried aluminum many time before and they always come back to copper

    But the way they build shit in the throw away society we have now, plastic will be the next thing down the pike

    The ****ed up thing about it is Carrier finally did figure out how to make an aluminum oil that didn't leak then they went back to copper, but now they are back to aluminum

    Yep change is good
  11. Chuck

    Chuck Old New Member

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    3,798
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    NW WI
    I'm just waiting for pex refer piping. :lachen:
  12. Catpower

    Catpower The Crowd Pleaser

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    16,345
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    in the Cabana

    Me too, but that shit sure is good for water piping
  13. oroy54

    oroy54 New Member

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    18,204
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    Victoria, Texas
    Times are a changing...
  14. Phase Loss

    Phase Loss IF YOU STAY READY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET READY

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    I wonder if they know you can bend copper too?
  15. Y7turbo

    Y7turbo New Member

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    With that kinda talk, you wont be the next aluminum tubing salesman for Daikin.
  16. tuna

    tuna New Member

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    2,223
    The bending is not a benefit, just a neccasary thing with aluminum. The dont have 90s, only couplings.

    The fact that Daiken is allowing this on their systems, which are extrememly expensive, makes me think this is a better way than burning the joints. I dont think they are allowing it because its cheaper, but because they think it will give a tighter cleaner system. The guy that talked about this has done a number of these systems with lots of joints and they all were leak free and pulled to low micron vaccum. He said he would insulate the joints as he did it he was so confident it was not gonna leak.

    Im not trying to push this and dont think I would try it until its been around longer and is more proven. Just looks like its coming from what I see. Maybe not in residential systems, but definately commercial and refrigeration systems with lots of joints and piping.
  17. flange

    flange I can't make u do it, I can only make u wish u had

    Have sold lots of daikin systems, and using quality service mechanics have had great success using hard drawn tubing and elbows, but these are guys who are anal about their work. I could see some value in Daikin trying to keep their systems healthier by using bent tubing in lieu of poorly brazed joints.
    Arent all the manu's using it to a degree in microchannel systems? I remember going to a class on that sheit a few years ago, and they claim you can fix it with a special brazing rod.
  18. Catpower

    Catpower The Crowd Pleaser

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    16,345
    Location:
    in the Cabana
    I wrote in another thread about Harris Alsolder 500, although I think I wrote 100 but it works pretty good on fixing aluminum, but not right at the hot gas line, I've fixed quite a few leaks with it and it has lasted until the unit was scrapped

    There is also some epoxies that work good too, but they all have a shelf life and take more time to cure
  19. Texasrefrig

    Texasrefrig New Member

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    Texas
    Looks interesting, I do agree though. I can fab the copper faster than he did. All in the marketing I guess
  20. Flame

    Flame New Member

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    1
    Reflok aluminum tubing and mechanical connectors have been used in several dozen jobs in the Baltimore/Washington area with great success. It takes one job before you get good at it but when you do you save a lot of labor and, of course, aluminum is much, much cheaper than copper. Contractors say both cost and labor time are reduced by 30%. When you get the hang of it you will have zero leaks. In addition, no nitrogen is required and you can insulate as you go.

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